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Capital Traders Group and Apiary Fund: False Proprietary Trading Company Claims

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I look for information on companies allocating capital to independent traders.  I´ve my own opinion that allocation of capital to multiple independent traders is the most intelligent investment approach for foreseeable future.

Unfortunately, by far most of the firms claiming allocation of proprietary capital is doing anything but that. Usually such allocation claim is just a smoke screen for another service – like training course or day-trading brokerage account.

Two examples are Capital Traders Group and Apiary Fund.

Capital Traders Group claims to allocate proprietary capital for individual trader to trade. When one reads through the small print, basically the offer is to pay $2500 fee and trade $25000 of ¨proprietary capital¨ and keep 99% of profits.  The trading is stopped, if the ¨fee¨paid does not cover incurred losses sufficiently. Obviously, the service is most suitable for persons who want to day-trade stocks, but do not have USD 25´000 to open day-trading  account. Probably, the terms are different for experienced traders with track record, but the standard terms suggest there is no genuine allocation of capital to independent traders.

Apiary Fund delivers a smooth sales pitch for the crowdsourcing the trading performance. It is only late in the presentation when the sales pitch switches to promoting the training and trading platform they provide and disclosure that they charge $695 enrollment fee and $97 monthly technology fee. There no mention of the amount of captital they have in the fund and there is little justification for the fees other than that Affinity Trading Group charges $4995 for 7 day trading and SMB Training charges $6000 for 4 month training. The very fact of comparing themselves to training companies implies that Apiary Fund promoters consider training fees rather than profits from trading proprietary capital as the primary source of income. The low capital allocation (as low as $1000) at entry level just confirms the same.

My vision is that genuine proprietary trading company should not charge any obligatory fees to prospective system traders, but use adequate process of evaluation of the trading systems on risk/reward basis. If the trader and his system passes the evaluation test, the trader should receive competitive remuneration from proprietary trading company rather than pay to it.

92 Responses

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  1. Firms are requiring deposits because the SEC and FINRA have regulated the proprietary broker-dealer model, requiring deposits by class B members of the firm (the trader). read up on the rules before making false claims against apiary or anybody else – http://www.finra.org/web/groups/industry/@ip/@reg/@notice/documents/notices/p121247.pdf

    frank s

    June 13, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    • Schill!

      Tobi Cato

      August 30, 2012 at 6:01 pm

    • @ Frank….The deposit required by Finra/SEC for Class B members is of no consequence. The issue is simply transparency, cost should be stated upfront by any company calling itself a “Fund”. Their should be no need fro any sales pitch, most people if they truly want to become a ‘Trader’ are going to pay any required fees regardless of whether they are skyward.

      In fact, I know quite a few people in the business and as a former fund manager, I am quite versed with Finra/SEC requirements, your statement is literally beside the issue, a distraction which does not begin to address the statement in the article, “Capital Traders Group and Apiary Fund: False Proprietary Trading Company Claims”.

      There is nothing wrong with their model and their sales pitch, simply put, some people feel misled by the statement put forth by email, advertisements etc.

      If anyone reading this post would like to trade, study your series three and follow up with the test…..follow up with other registrations….investment in yourself will lead to your destination….trade with small amount of funds your able to afford to lose, and remember your going to lose….this scenario is simple…your in a cage fight with a titan, do you think your going to win? Take small amounts and be happy….when you or your system improves….change the amount your trading.

      Gregory

      August 5, 2013 at 1:51 am

    • Do you work for apiary? Seems that way.. .

      Mistermpr

      October 17, 2013 at 5:36 pm

  2. “My vision is that genuine proprietary trading company should not charge any obligatory fees to prospective system traders, but use adequate process of evaluation of the trading systems on risk/reward basis. If the trader and his system passes the evaluation test, the trader should receive competitive remuneration from proprietary trading company rather than pay to it.”

    Great idea. now all you have to do is convince FINRA, the SEC, and President Obama that proprietary traders should not put down capital deposits. The proprietary broker-dealer model requires deposits from traders. You also fail to realize that there are plenty of firms who hire based on skill set, including the firms you mentioned above. The skill-set required is a positive trading history that can demonstrate your ability to make profits. You sound like a whiny teenager looking to trade OPC (other people’s capital). No firm, or you for that matter, will ever make a cent trading with that mentality. Firms are under tight regulations and even tighter market constraints. Capital is always there, but it will never be there for newbies who right off the bat are scared to risk their own capital in the market lol. how do you expect to be an independent prop trader if you can’t wipe your own ass man?

    jon

    June 15, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    • Nice hit job there, but you seem to have reading comprehension issues.

      The whole idea that is being sold is that you AREN’T TRADING YOUR OWN MONEY.

      Had to do that in caps, just to be clear. What these firms are selling is that you trade their money, but that of course it not what they are doing. You know, the whole point of the post. Now if they were selling broker services, you and the poster above you would be correct.

      But they aren’t, hence this is dishonesty at best and most likely simply a scam to sell brokerage services.

      Last Out

      October 14, 2011 at 3:02 pm

      • I just listened to this pitch. For most of the presentation they make no mention of anything except their training to get you to the point that you can make money for them and yourself. The implication is that they want to do something similar to grooming Trurtle Traders {look up the book- The Complete TurtleTrader: How 23 Novice Investors Became Overnight Millionaires [Paperback] by Michael W. Covel }. But unlike the Turtle Traders Apiary Fund at the end of their pitch puts forth a one time charge of $1295. plus $97 per month to use their tools. They should be made to be more honest up front so they don’t suck in some naive folks. I have recently run into several such pitches where the whole point is to generate certain fees for the company while dangling a bright bauble to hynotize people.

        Seerwise

        December 6, 2011 at 3:13 am

      • EXACTLY!!!

        Apiary is really selling trading education and “maybe” if it works out and they accdept you they will allocate funds to an individual trader.

        Who ever posted the FINRA link to the rules obviously can’t (probably works for Apiary) read and comprhend the difference between posting capital and buying a service.

        Daniel Kayser

        January 6, 2012 at 6:29 pm

    • Hello, dear Jon! I am a lady and therefore please be so kind and avoid telling me that I “can’t wipe my own ass”…Thank you.
      I used to be a compliance officer in financial service industry but in different field. I might be wrong but here it is my thinking: if you are mentioning FINRA (and this is the prime reason I am writing this e-mail), we are stepping in the very-very tough world of compliance. Any legitimate Broker/Dealer, as you know, MUST follow specific federal and state rules and regulations. Correct?
      Now, if this holds true, all traders who trade Other People Capital and work for legitimate Broker/Dealer, according to FINRA, have to have one or more special licenses (series 7, 55…). Unless I missed something, during the presentation licensing process was never mentioned. And as you probably know, getting any of those licenses is not a picnic, especially now. I don’t understand how firms can operate as a Broker/Dealer and have their “traders” trading Other People Capital without being licensed? Again, I might be wrong and not aware about some specifics of the trading world. And if I am, please enlighten me. I would really appreciate it.

      Ellen Green

      Ellen Green

      March 30, 2012 at 7:51 pm

      • most probably have been allowing other traders under their supervision or payout scheme, to trade for themselves or others, under the licensed agent’s brand name; which as we all know, is entirely in violation of the statue, in practice and in spirit of the laws at best.

        ellen you are right there.

        thx for speaking out

        nakachalet

        March 31, 2012 at 9:38 pm

      • Just take a look at Apiary’s office on Google Maps and go to “Street View”. There is a reason they are in such a remote location. If that doesn’t raise a “red flag” nothing will.

        Tobi Cato

        August 30, 2012 at 6:08 pm

      • Msr/Ms Ellen Green, would you be so kind and txt me regarding the Series 7 & 55.

        Leonard Fields

        August 13, 2013 at 11:33 pm

    • Can’t wipe your own ass? Classy.
      http://www.finra.org/web/groups/industry/@ip/@reg/@notice/documents/notices/p121247.pdf
      Read the pdf that finra posts on it’s site concerning this scam. There is no place that states that students or employees need to shell out $2000 (or whatever amount) to get a job. Look at the phrase in the document, “depending on the facts and circumstances of such arrangements.” This is a key phrase. I’ve contacted FINRA and they told me that there is no law that states that a person must pay money to be a firm’s trader. They may pay in order to receive training, and strictly training, that is all. But Apiary Fund states that they will give you a small account with THEIR money. Nothing could be further from the truth, unless of course, you are a trader with a track record. ApiaryFund claims that they are looking for people with no experience. Of course! That’s so they can sell you a day-trading training course. Advice: Take the fee and setup your own forex account. Learn as much as you can on your own through books, webinars, and other sources. Trade that money. If you lose, you may realize that trading isn’t for you. If you win and continue to earn a profit, you can thank the bees at Apiary that your successful career on your own started with their pitch.

      Jeff

      October 18, 2012 at 12:55 pm

      • O…Kaayyy. A new member of this forum here. I read the whole string. I attended an APIARY webinar yesterday.
        So far, from what I have read in this thread, I will respond to two points previous posters brought up;
        . Trading the FIRM’S firm’s capital as a satellite trader is permissible without licensing ~ is my understanding. To be clear, trading “other peoples” capital is another question, where licensing may be required. That is a public fund registered with the SEC like let’s say the Vanguard Fund.
        You have to be CLEAR on what you are referring to as “other peoples capital” . If I am a multi-millionaire, and decide I want to train a handful of people to trade currencies “my way”, then allot each of them 50k to trade, I can do that: No licensing required They don’t even have to be trained. I can train a rhesus monkey (call him “Bongo”) to push “buy”, then “sell” on the keyboard. And the monkey doesn’t need to be licensed as long as Bongo’s name is on my account form , giving him discretion.

        A personal note; (I am retired) however, I have held many licenses simultaneously. I worked on the floor of the Pacific Coast Options Exchange for Bear Stearns/Morgan Stanley. As retail broker for Bear & Shearson Lehman and Gruntal & Co. As well as managing a handful of commodity brokerage offices.

        My second Point; Because I attended one of Apiary’s inter-active orientation webinars yesterday, I feel qualified to address this point. What they represented in that webinar was that, they will train you with their methods of trade entries and exits as well as money management. Upon completion of the training, you, the student, trade a “paper-money” 10k trading account. Apiary monitors this account for a period. They advise you on issues regarding your trading that they feel need fine tuning or more work. You have access via email and possibly by phone to ask instructors questions.
        Once your trading has shown consistency; that is 1) more wins than losses 2) Average win > Average Loss; then Apiary allots the minimum capital to you.
        They do not PROMISE that they WILL LET you trade their money after training. You have to show in real time that you know what you are doing, before they allot real money. I am certain of the inevitability of some of their students to fail. If you can’t trade, they aren’t going to throw away their money by letting you lose it for them.
        By the way, in yesterdays webinar, a participant asked if could just trade his system, using their money, and go ahead and only pay the $97 monthly service fee. Darrell, the presenter answered;,”we have to see your account statements for the past.. but sure, if you show us that you know how to trade.” So evidently, it’s not all about selling the $1297 Training program.

        Now, I am not an Apiary “shill” I am a guy who answered an unsolicited email in my mailbox, then attended the webinar yesterday and stumbled upon this forum in my search for information on the legitimacy of Apiary and what they are selling.

        I got a call this morning from Utah, but let it go to answering machine, as I wanted to research Apiary first, then come up with a list of questions for their sales rep.
        What I did not see in this discussion was any mention of how many traders Apiary actually funds, and to what amount of trading capital they allot to these individuals. What is the average allotment of trading capital? $5k, 10k $25k? 250K?
        I believe their first and lowest allotment to a student is in the order of $2500, then gradually move up 10k, 25k 50k etc. AS you, the trader, continue to trade successfully, the percentage paid out to you caps out at 85% when you are trading 250k and higher. HOW many traders are there?, Period.
        What I want to know is how many of these (satellite?) traders are being paid at this 70% or 85% level?

        How many trading more than 250k of Apiary’s capital? HOW MUCH TRADING CAPITAL does Apiary have? What percentage of that is allotted to “the crowd”?
        I want to know how many traders are trading at each level. 2500, 5k, 10k…50k, etc. I want stats on what percentage of the students actually get funded by Apiary out of the total number of students enrolled?

        . I want stats on how long they last, how many progress and numbers on as to what levels they progress?
        How long do they last? What is the average length of time these “funded” student traders have been on board?
        How many blow out in the first year of trading real money? How quickly do the “successful” traders go from trading 2500 to trading 100k and more?
        I don’t think Apiary will be able to provide me these statistics, and I think that would be a real shame. How a so called “Crowd -sourcing” proprietary money fund could succeed without keeping stats on their program would baffle me. That alone would not pass the smell test.
        In any event, ladies & gentlemen, I couldn’t find all my answers here, so I will go back to Apiary and see what I may glean from them.
        I want stats~ I am the “stat whore”. Quantifiable Numbers can tell give us the big story on Apiary….So, with that, I will sign off. I’ll let you know what I find in my quest for numbers..

        Oh one other thing…on Jeff’s comments about taking the 1297 enrollment fee and using that money to buy your own data feed and to fund a small trading account…after reading a few books on how to trade.
        Easier said than done. Any experienced trader knows that. Most people will not trade successfully by reading a few trading books. I am a believer that a mentor of sorts is required. There is always the exception. Numbers crunchers like Ed Seykota, who test & test a “system”, then trade it successfully. But you are not Ed Seykota, nor are you Graham & Dodd prodigy, Warren Buffett, the “value investor”.

        Someone to guide you through the in’s & outs of pattern trading & money management. How to work through emotions and losing periods without giving up. Even Paul Tudor Jones had a mentor.
        So, if Apiary can provide me with numbers, hence statistics, then I’ll know if they are just another “trading course vendor” or the real deal. A real deal being that they they teach a thoroughly effective trading method and once the student proves they learned it successfully, they will fund a trading account. (and I would like to speak to a few of their more seasoned “students-turned-traders”.

        Anyhow, I will give you an update soon.

        caswa

        August 2, 2013 at 7:58 pm

  3. It is unrealistic (too good to be true?) to expect any firm to simply “give” independent traders a wad of money to trade with. But, in looking at Last Out’s post, that’s not what he is expecting necessarily. What he is saying perhaps is that there should/must be clearer disclosure about exactly how Apiary’s funds are allocated and how prop trading concept is implemented – if for no other reason than to remove the “bait-and-switch” appearance of their marketing material.
    As far as the “training fee” issue is concerned, maybe they can say something like “if you get trained by us and your demonstration account doesn’t meet our strict ‘trader’ criteria, we will refund X% of your training fee. This suggests that they are charging the fee simply to weed out the tire-kickers and curious. Since they don’t say how many of the trainees are ultimately ‘accepted’ as traders of the company’s funds, one has to wonder if indeed they are simply running a marketing and training company. Oliver Velez and his Velez Capital markets a similar program, except he charges several thousand dollars ($5k the last time I saw it) for the shot at ‘possibly’ being accepted as one of his traders.
    For Apiary, whose most recent training fee is $995, they only need to ‘train’ 1000 prospects and they made themselves a cool Million, plus another $291k for the next 3 months at $97/mo while you try to qualify to meet their criteria. Keep in mind that this doesn’t involve any travel or personal appearances expenses for them – it all on-line based. For Velez, it’s $5mill for every 1000 he trains. That’s a great business model by any measure. Why bother risking your capital trading? Especially as a retail FOREX/currency trader – a traditionally tough place to make a living for “the average Joe” with a laptop or desktop and an internet connection.
    Personally, I would want to see their records to figure out how much money they really have in their TRADING fund, how many people they trained that traded, and are still trading, the fund, and what the typical ‘acceptance’ rate is from their training pool. I know they would never share those numbers, so you are left to guess as to your chances of making it as a trader of their funds. If you think, and you are correct, that the training is valuable and effective enough to allow you to become an independent trader, then maybe the grand you spend is worth it. Just remember, the currencies market is not necessarily kind to the average retail trader.

    Jake N

    December 6, 2011 at 12:57 am

    • Nate Allred at Apiary Fund just told me the acceptance rate for applicants to be funded with their money is 50%-60% and there is no license requirements since we will be trading in their account in New Zealand.

      dspatola

      August 16, 2012 at 9:42 pm

  4. OK, say someone is interested in learning the market from the inside-what would be the learning itinerary
    that you would back with your knowledge? That is provided you do have knowledge in this area of expertise and are willing to share it-for a fee, of course which would result in positive, we all know what that is, knowledge countable in hard currency.

    JimLA

    December 14, 2011 at 1:33 pm

  5. for what it is worth for you all out there;

    those who trade for a living and trade successfully and profitably with longevity,
    would most probably have very little time to be of any interest to train
    someone or entity for nominal fees, as most traders already realize.

    those who advertise to teach or train or whatever to help other wannabes
    to be successful and profitable, with all due respect, are very probably, very successful and
    profitable traders with long list of successes on back-testing to back their profitable trading claims.

    those who wish to trade with certain level of profitability and consistency, should NEVER HAVE TO PAY ANY RED CENT initially…. in learning how to trade a commodity. yes, there are profoundly different approaches and ways to trade different products in the market.

    there are plenty of free trading resources on the internet, including free trading rooms for aspiring traders to join for a brief period to follow and try out their systems and trading methodologies and styles which also include rooms run by professional real time traders with accreditation and certifications, trading their own funds and in real time for the benefits of members learning how to trade. but alas, there is no guaranty whatever that thereafter the free trial period that wannabes would or could become remotely profitable.

    even after paying the monthly fee and whatever, at the end of the year, there is likewise no guarantee that wannabes would be able to trade profitably with consistency. granted, at the end of the first year, the person would be a lot wiser in terms of trading and perhaps in the process also become a lot poorer as well.

    i also met numerous so called guru in trading education, less than 5% are trading their own funds to prove their points and justify their room fees; however with that said, most of this small group are also selling their other auxiliary trading services for additional fees, without exception to date. there is no malicious intent in my response above, K? just another trader’s personal opinion and experience.

    you are welcome to rebut any time.

    wishing everyone a very merry christmas.

    trader who lives and loves to trade….

    nakachalet

    December 24, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    • I found this on another website and it seems Shawn Lucas has been a “busy little bee” haha — http://www.ripoffreport.com/multi-level-marketing/uprize/uprize-uprize-mlm-uprize-fore-615a9.htm

      “Uprize is the largest FOREX trading scam yet. A simple look at their signals and the founders and all you see is a bunch of MLM people and NO TRADERS. Shawn Lucas is the only person who has any trading experience and based on his old company apiary funds ( which you can google) he had little to no success. I paid for this program and all you are paying for is education that will lead to failure. If you want to learn what their “proprietary indicators are just go to meta trader… click insert…. click indictors… They have made an existing indicators hidden to you to charge a fee. There is nothing that they could add to an indicator that you can not personally do yourself on meta trader. Before you waist a dime see results… Not just ones on paper, see them live. None the executive team has them, neither does Shawn Lucas. This company will hurt a lot of people ridding on the coat tails of Glen Jensen, if you simply search his name you will see the lawsuit he filed against agel and he was not that big of a fish in their company. If he was, why did they push him out? I know its only $199 but save yourself the cost. I joined thinking they were a huge name with huge trading results and huge financial backing only to find they work out of a 10 X 10 suite in Provo. ”

      Paul B

      Tobi Cato

      August 30, 2012 at 6:34 pm

      • Folks, no such thing as a ‘free lunch’ … But, make no mistake, Apiary does have traders, and very good mentors. Mr Lucas claims to have his first billion dollar year, in 2013. All employees must be paid, and with the staff Apiary has it simply must have cash flow to pay the bills. The videos are very good, good sound, and the courses and library are thorough. Like any new business (Apiary is 3 years old) it just takes time and effort to establish principles and a ‘system’. I am not by any means a spokesperson for Apiary and no one there knows I am writing this. Look at their background and then judge for your self. All things could be better but I believe long term Apiary will teach well and survive all this. I will say this: Trading Forex is complicated. I’ve been studying this since August 2013, with several companies. all of whom will allow you to utilize their trading platform, free of charge, and will mentor you via computer. While no one wants to become a ‘babysitter’, we all need a direct answer on occasion. BUT IF YOU WISH TO LEARN FOREX, DO THIS: GO TO http://www.youtube.com and type in FOREX REVIEWS, or FX Street … and pay attention to the videos. FREE training, up to date and VALID … but, you will, on your own, need to be conversant with the various times around the world so as to know how to learn whom is trading when; but, no doubt, there are hours and hours of FX training for no fee at all. Look especially for the ‘studies’ … what currency pairs are most used (EUR/USD) … best time of day to trade them … which pair is having traders lose the most money (EUR/USD ) so maybe you can get the handle on it. Most valuable: FREE practice in trading, with the MT 4.

        delhagan

        March 19, 2014 at 12:23 am

  6. Dear Nakachalet & anyone else with an educated response,
    I am in somewhat of a quandry about Apiary. I am 61 years old, and after owning a Mortgage Co., a small Real Estate Co., both the two tenants in the Commercial Bldg, my wife & I built, were doing well when the RE/Mtge. world went off the cliff. In addition I have an income tax prep.. business for 24 years in my City of Residence. Looking to shift gears, I have been doing some of my own stock trading, and recently after a long time of Training by Webinars, seminars, publications, and whatever else available at close to NO cost, on the Net, I am progressing in my Options Trading. Looking to remain independent, work at home, do what I enjoy, until eventual retirement, I found the Apiary set up very intriguing, if quasi real. I would not mind the fees for added specific currency trading education if I could possibly blend this in to my current routine. I mean realistically, look what many pay for BA and MBA degrees. Bottom line I guess, is what is your point blank feeling and advice on this

    GTA

    January 8, 2012 at 12:57 am

    • i am very glad that you are very cautious in your progression toward trading full time. it is entirely possible to live well while trading full time but the road to such destination is not rosy as most promoters would like everyone to believe. most promoters, probably not all, are there to make money out of the unsuspecting wannabes. most but maybe not all are unable to trade profitably and consistently, that is one major reason, i believe, that they are doing what they are doing; with all due respect.

      many also would sign you on as trainee with the prospect of a permanent position as trader, for a nominal fee of around 500 usd training fee. some would even pay you a percentage as trainee, as you trade for them on their so-called live account through their own firms platform and signal feed. which is another can of worm by itself, for the signal and spread and several other factors could be controlled and manipulated in house, which i am certain you are already quite acquainted with.

      any way, down the road, before you go on live, if you wish to talk specificities, not generalities, on your own personal trading plans, platforms, trading setups, statistics gathered from sim, strategies and risk/reward management; be glad to lend you a free hand, K? best of luck, nakachalet@gmail.com

      nakachalet

      January 8, 2012 at 11:16 am

      • Your response,and information is greatly appreciated. I probably will take you up, on your most generous offer, and get back to you with more specifics, in the near future. Thank you. Gary

        GTA

        January 9, 2012 at 2:36 am

    • forex education especially for those wanting to do it at home as independent traders should never pay for training or courses…as nakachalet said…its all free…there’s alot of free demo software to start with…one thing is for sure…when you’re trading forex…you will have to learn the hard way (lose some to win)…i’m saying from experience…its been 8 years since i started forex trading, studied and developed my strategies on my own…i had my share of losses due to mistakes and some fear…but each day is a new day to enter the market and test your skill….my worst was losing my first personal account in 2006 ($18,000 in just 3 weeks)….and my best is growing a $15,000 to $112,000 in just 2 months (sept-nov 2010)….to each person who asks me to teach or share my skill i never charged a single $, i only require a willing and driven attitude plus lots of discipline….so I advice that you learn on your own for FREE…pay the fess in the future to whichever bank/broker house you will trade/deposit….a fast learner can usually have the skill in 3 months, but the fundamental aspect of trading takes alot more to master (and most of the time depends on the big players/govt’s.)…forex will always be profitable for the disciplined,patient and willing trader….if in life, we learn from mistakes…in trading we win more by experiencing some losses…Goodluck!

      Dennis

      February 20, 2012 at 7:44 am

      • Hi Dennis,i have been trading Forex for about 2yrs now,but have not been very successful at it,i would really appreciate if it would be possible for me to learn from you and gain some insight into your trading strategy.Iam personally very motivated and driven to be a full time trader and will be willing to go through hell,if i may to acquire the knowledge,so any help would me much appreciated.You can email me at saul_lal@yahoo.com should you be kindly willing to take me under your wings.
        Thanks,
        Saul

        saullal324

        April 3, 2012 at 11:05 pm

      • Hi Guys, (saullal324,marianito lumbang,Cobro@mail.org)
        My sincere apologies for not being able to send a reply soon as possible, i have been very busy with church/ministry the past weeks, got sick due to contaminated food, and re-scheduling of my trips for HK and Singapore…which should have been lastweek. Also,the email that i used for this was my alternate work email address which at times I opt not to check…nonetheless…I have also been busy talking to some members of my former team, so they can “get in the zone” to take over active-trading for me if and when i get accepted in the seminary formation (which I have been processing my application with the past weeks–a lifelong discernment I have always believed). This said, as I will be training new members of my team and mentoring my apprentice on a tighter schedule, you guys may join thru my yahoo messenger or skype discussion/chat with some of them. please provide me with your dedicated email address thru yahoo or gmail so we can chat/online training whenever we see each other. You may add me thru yahoo—dc_arapeles@yahoo.com.ph or skype i.d. carltondennis…..please introduce yourself so i can add/approve your requests easily.

        Nakachalet is right in saying this “just ask him if you could watch him trade with his own chart for a few hour.”—this also is my usual line for new traders who have preconceived ideas of forex trading based on someone else’s statements.

        Dennis

        May 18, 2012 at 8:25 am

      • hi Dennis, i think you can be the most reliable individual we can get information in becoming a successful forex trader.i hope we can discuss more.if i can get your contact information that will be a great help.thank you

        marianito lumbang

        April 9, 2012 at 6:16 pm

      • Hello Dennis,
        I was about to sign up for Apiary then I saw your comments. I like Saul have a similar request, I just got a new CPU and I have a willing heart. I want to be a day trader eventually and be like the guy who told me about forex who makes his daily 600-1500 before 10am est. I am a newbie so first steps would help as well as a plan to move forward.
        Cobro@mail.org

        CJ

        April 11, 2012 at 6:43 pm

      • cj: it is none of my biz really. but for the guy/gal who told you the glorious daily 600-1500 usd trading profit, just ask him if you could watch him trade with his own chart for a few hour.

        if anyone would be willing to let you watch his/her live screen and live trading on the spot…. and if he/she knows where to place an order or two and where and how to place his stop without you prompting….

        and that there is profitability at the end of each trade….

        perhaps you ought to consider to stick around, even if you have to pay to learn….

        however, i seriously doubt that 99% of those who told you the similar story would be able to show you live trade independently on his/her own live screen and live own trading setups….

        and most would almost guarantee that trading on sim is just the same as traading live….

        under such circumstances, run…. if you must. and keep your bank roll close to your vest, K?

        don’t say that no one warns you, alright?

        cheers

        nakachalet

        April 13, 2012 at 12:17 pm

      • Hi Dennis, I found myself in the same boat as Saul. I looked at the Apiary online seminar. It all looks attractive and I have been dabbling in the shares and last couple of years Indexs without any luck. I am not going to quit, however some relaiable and disciplined information goes a long way. any room for another willing student?? mini.trader@hotmail.com
        Regards
        Amin

        Amin

        June 30, 2012 at 2:56 pm

      • Likewise. I’d appreciate discussing a mentorship. Fullsircle@hotmail.com Thanks, Mark

        Mark

        August 15, 2012 at 12:37 am

    • hi gary

      it has been several months since… how are you and your family doing pls? are you getting any where with learning how to trade since your last post, pls? nakachalet@gmail.com

      nakachalet

      August 16, 2012 at 10:49 pm

  7. Nakachalet,thanks for the advice,i do believe just like every other profession Forex does also require some professional guidance (Paid classes if need be) and also hands on experience both with paper and live trading again with classes.

    saullal324

    April 13, 2012 at 6:39 pm

  8. I have been listening to the sales pitch the last hour and reading here… I have been around enough to know this is a sales pitch aimed at novices. A good business for them, they get $1500 plus and if they do fund you they can cancel if you lose a few hundred….

    Definitely something to avoid, do your own training and put the $1500 in your account to trade!

    Paul

    May 28, 2012 at 5:05 pm

  9. FYI I meant this is a good business for Apiary, not for the novices… definitely avoid and buy a few books. “if you dont fill out the application now, you will wake up tomorrow and know you’ve missed a huge opportunity”… why is the application only available now?

    At the end they say this opportunity is only available now and you must sign up now! A big red flag… some ppl are putting their money down eagerly and others say it is too much.

    Paul

    May 28, 2012 at 5:10 pm

  10. Very interesting replies and opinions by all. Has anyone ever heard of/ dealt with Iceberg Capital LLC – a proprietary trading firm supposedly out of Chicago?

    Saurabh Dhall

    May 30, 2012 at 5:37 am

  11. i would advise any one to stay away from apiary trading fund with all the spin off news and hype to get you to spend 500 – 4200 to trade forex. i got quoted 500 but did join and it was a night mare to get out and still fighting to get my money back. the reps all call you and think they can up sell you and badger you all day and the plat form is not for trading it is some cheap version of a cartoon.they never answer there phones and they never set you up for any classes.

    rocket

    June 4, 2012 at 8:42 pm

  12. I find it interesting that everyone here who has a negative opinion of the Apiary Fund has no personal experience with the company. I have been a part of the company for over a year, and find it to be exactly what they claim it to be. I have a funded account that I trade for them, and have found their training to be the best I have ever found in the industry. I struggled to learn Forex on my own for years before I found out about Apiary.

    If you doubt it, do your own research. I did, and I found it to be everything they claim it is. Simply stating, “It sounds like a scam” shows a lack of understanding and is a cop-out. Find out for yourself.

    joey

    June 12, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    • @joey

      good for you, joey.

      however, perhaps you can enlighten me and whole bunch of other traders who trade for a living:

      1–a few months ago, i addressed an email to your boss who claimed that he is on the record as the proprietor. the questions were:

      1a–to show the exact date and time of the trades of your chief trader on latest 3 days, a pix of the chief trader’s trading screens which were used for real money trading screen; not the home grown spread sheet to fool the novices.

      but then there was no reply.

      worse someone attempted to reply and tried to explain that, that was the privilege info…. that kind of bull and cop-out explanation.

      and for you, joey, not that i doubt you nor your ability to trade, but rather than using bunch of verbiage to do whatever you intended to do and to hope experienced traders would go along, is truly whimsical at best.

      1b–another question was also asked about the clearing houses which have been clearing your company’s real money trades of those whom your company claimed to have provided funds to trade; there was also dead silence.

      dear joey, do you get the picture?

      rather than wasting any one’s time any more,

      pls joey, JUST SHOW US THE TWO ITEMS ABOVE,

      and i can guarantee you, your good deed rather than your words, would win over plenty of new believers and students as well.

      JOEY, IF YOU AND YOUR COMPANY CAN NOT DO THAT FOR WHATEVER PERSONAL, PRIVATE OR ANY OTHER REASONS, then pls just go on and do whatever you people do best;

      BUT DO NOT ATTEMPT TO CONVINCE OTHER TRADERS ABOUT YOUR COMPANY NOR WHATEVER YOU PEOPLE ARE DOING TO ALLOCATE FUNDS AND SUCH TO SUCH AND SUCH,

      but when asked to provide tangible evidence of trading, there are plenty of excuses abound.

      just to show you, joey, that a pix is worth more than 10,000 words, i am enclosing a pix for you and everyone’s else enjoyment. and mind you i am just a private trader who just hates to see beginning traders being taken advantages of, so shamelessly and shamefully by many trading gurus and trainers who trade sim for a living.

      joey, rebutt if you like, but with trading screens ok? not with more explanation and excuses like hundreds others already appeared before you and your company attempt.

      cheers everyone and happy trading.

      *sorry everyone, but there is no button for attachment here.

      if interested email me, K? nakachalet@gmail.com

      nakachalet

      June 13, 2012 at 1:51 am

      • First of all nakachalet, I don’t work for the company, I work with the company as an independent trader. I don’t have a boss at the company, but I trade their money as an independent contractor. That’s the way this works.

        I can’t speak to any email traffic that you claim to have sent, just as I can’t speak to any reasons why an email sent to request the information you mention might have gone unanswered. If you sent an email demanding answers in the same tone as you posted your comments above, I don’t think I would have answered you either. I can only say that each and every time I have had any questions – be it trade-related or software-related, I have received prompt, professional responses that have given me exactly what I needed. Who did you email anyway? Do you know if the individual you emailed is even with the company?

        I can say that the proof is indeed in the pudding – I understand your skepticism. For me, the proof is in the live Apiary Fund trading rooms that I attend each week with the company’s professional traders. Every Wednesday and Thursday mornings from 10am to 12pm Eastern I find myself in the live trading rooms watching live trades in live market conditions with live data. I trade right along side them. They don’t tell me what to trade, rather I’m shown how to trade, and I’m free to trade the funded account as I see fit. For me at least, I find that’s the way I learn best.

        No disrespect intended, but you seem like a very passionate person who has already formed an opinion of a company and a particular business model without the benefit of all the facts.

        I, like you am just a private trader who happens to have personally benefitted from the company that you apparently are skeptical about. No problem – You’re entitled to your opinion, and I certainly wish you the best. You ask for proof in the form of screen shots of actual trades. No problem. Do you really think that a few screen shots is really going to be enough to sway your opinion? I’ll email you my trading charts at the email address you posted above. What if that’s not enough? What will you demand next? DNA samples and dental records? Where does it end? I’ll make you a deal. You really look at the model with an open mind, and I’ll supply you with all the screen shots you ever dreamed of.

        Contrary to your very passionate assertion, I am not trying to convince anyone to drop what they’re doing and join the Apiary Fund. I am simply standing up as one who has personal knowledge that this is the best thing that I have ever done to become a successful trader.

        I’m not here to convince you or anyone else of anything. I’m here to simply tell you what has happened with me personally. It’s easy to hide behind the anonymity of the Internet and spew venom without repercussions. A real trader like yourself should recognize that you’re not Heaven’s Gift to traders. I’m not either – I’m just open-minded enough to find out for myself what the truth really is instead of relying on a bunch of people that I have never met expressing an opinion regarding something they have no personal experience with.

        joey

        June 13, 2012 at 10:07 pm

      • joey, can you show us the items nakachalet asked for?????

        stryper

        July 16, 2012 at 4:05 pm

      • Agreed. Every legitimate company in NYC i have ever been a trading partner in wanted to see my previous P&Ls. Also they never hesitated when i asked to speak with their top traders, who i might add were more than forthcoming with showcasing their results. If it walks like a duck, if it smells like a duck, if it sounds like a duck…… well you know the rest!

        Tobi Cato

        August 30, 2012 at 6:17 pm

    • Email me cobro@mail.org please. I asked AP to have a trader who is doing well to call me when I began to digg deep and do the research you speak of and I never heard back from them.

      CJ

      June 13, 2012 at 11:36 pm

      • @joey

        @CJ

        to make it brief, i really do not need to know your system, by just looking at your live charts with your trigger points getting in and out of a trade, or a few trades…. it could pretty much be tentatively surmised if or when the system whatever it is, that whatever you used appear workable or not just for those embedded trades.

        it could also be subsequently extended further to project, if and when the same system and/or methodology is repeated used again and again under similar condition, would more likely than not, profitable or not.

        i really do not need to ask for more and more live trading charts from you, joey.

        just send me or better yet, if you can post them here for everyone to see, would be much better.

        that way it would be worth your time and effort including the so-called proprietorial company you said you did not work for…. but you are just a trader there.

        it is really ironical that you practically disown them but you also stated that they funded your acct and that, i would go on and venture to guess, that–if and when you traded their again so-called funded acct, if and when successful, you would be entitled to a what–20%, 30% kickback, so to speak?

        you really do not need to reveal much, but most traders are already quite a distance ahead of you in this so-called funded acct by a third person or entity.

        may i be bold enough to ask also for a pix of the funded acct and statement with your personal identity and any other personal info including company id et al, to be blocked out?

        let other traders on this forum take a good look and decide, if at all the statement is really coming from a recognized clearing house or just something that looks similar…. yes, i have seen numerous statements looking very much alike but then 99% appeared to be just a facsimile bearing unverifiable acct numbers and such.

        perhaps, you really ought to do a due diligence just for yourself and SEE IF A THIRD INDEPENDENT COMPANY COULD VERIFY the authenticity and reliability of your acct.

        perhaps, like many proprietorial trading companies, your acct and statement are just IN-HOUSE or A SPECIAL ARRANGEMENT ACCT with whoever or whomever and whatever, K?

        i am posting to you all these questions, NOT BECAUSE I DISLIKE YOU OR WHOEVER OR WHEREVER YOU COME FROM OR REPRESENT, but because those would be the same questions that i would be doing due diligence on for myself, if i were in your situation, K?

        do what you wish, joey. unless you could provide some pix of the requested per above, i won’t want to comment any further regarding your purported trading achievement with that company in question.

        anyway, joey, wishing you the best and just watch yourself and your money, K?

        and if anyone is so consistently successful in those setups, why or why would anyone want to just make money for someone else rather than bring home the gravy for own family members like numerous other traders have been doing on this board? just a question, K?

        furthermore, many such companies like yours would require traders to pay more with independent traders’ own money as they remain with the program, under the name of investing or whatever cute name , before those traders would be allowed to climb the ladder for bigger piece of the pie…. so to speak….?

        did your company do anything like that under whatever reasons they come up with?

        just keep your money close to your vest, alright?

        good luck and many many profitable trading days ahead, joey.

        and thx very much everyone for your time. cheers.

        nakachalet

        June 14, 2012 at 2:06 am

      • @CJ: I just sent you an email – please feel free to ask me any questions about my experience with them – I’m happy to share anything I have personal experience with.

        joey

        June 14, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    • Hello Joey,
      I found Apiary Fund through my own research while looking for alternative ways of trading. I watched the pitch presentation and considered joining. But then I read comments on the Internet that are what I am reading in this forum – not very encouraging. I am still considering joining but I would greatly value a conversation with someone already involved. If you could email me at ssinogo@yahoo.com I would be really greatful. Thanks

      marmar

      July 3, 2012 at 4:43 am

  13. @nakachalet:

    I just sent you an email as well with a screen shot of the account balance and transaction information for my account.

    As to your question about why anyone would want to simply make money for someone else rather than bring home the gravy for their own family – for me it was a question of not having my own sufficient trading capital that first got me interested in Apiary. Since I started, not only have they given me their money to trade, but I have also become a much better trader because of their training. It makes sense when you think about it… if I’m trading their money, wouldn’t you expect them to do their best to help me be a great trader?

    This may not be for everyone, but it has certainly been a good experience for me.

    joey

    June 14, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    • @joey: Hey Joey I was wondering if you could send me the same info you sent to nakachalet. I would like to follow in your footsteps but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t a little bit nervous from all the negative feedback being thrown around about this company lol. Anyway my addy is normburgher@shaw.ca Thanx bro

      Norm

      July 1, 2012 at 6:54 pm

    • Are you still currently trading with the company?

      Ryan

      October 23, 2012 at 2:12 am

  14. @joey

    thx joey for your email.

    i just stopped reading at the first paragraph when you attached your performance sheet which as any traders worth their salt would know, is absolutely and categorically subject to manipulation–but i am not saying yours is such, alright?

    as i always stated–just show me your own live trading screen shot with whatever you trade showing entry and exit points which is all i need to determine to a certain degree if such contraption would likely be profitable or not.

    for your own good and your financial health–pls do go to cme website and ask any compliance officer there as to some reasons why so-called u.s. brokerage houses, would not choose to use a u.s. base clearing house. for other readers of this forum’s benefits, i would broadly state that most brokerage houses choosing to go overseas rather than using any u.s. based clearing house is mainly because THEY CAN NOT CONFORM TO THE U.S. COMPLIANCE STANDARDS WHICH IS MAINLY TO PROTECT THE CONSUMERS, period.

    come to think of it, joey, you’d better read your contract again, i’ll bet you anything that there is a clause there somewhere that states you are not entitled to engage the company in any litigation in the u.s. territory.

    joey dear, another question for you; do you have any control over the live trading screen?

    and does your live trading screen match up with live trading screen from other data feed?

    well, i am really constrained by time, otherwise i would try to help you further along so you would be able to trade for yourself and your own acct.

    find answers to those questions above, if you have time.

    better yet, just when you are in the live trading room–ask for verification of your live acct and ask the head signal caller or head trader as to, if you could have your portion of your acct be funded in the u.s. and by a u.s. clearing house?

    that would be really interesting to see their reactions. but then, you might be booted out too soon after for whatever reasons. so perhaps, you ought not ask but just go about quietly to seek out those answers for your own protection, K?

    good luck and good fortune to you, joey.

    wishing you the best to come.

    nakachalet

    June 14, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    • @joey

      do you wish to look further into this?

      3 May 2010 – Divisa Capital (DCFX) is a ECN Broker working from New Zealand. Divisa Capital (DCFX) is a Not regulated Broker.

      nakachalet

      June 14, 2012 at 6:19 pm

  15. @nakachalet

    Thanks again for your concerns, and for your willingness to protect myself and other traders from harm. Obviously, you are an individual with good intentions, which I sincerely appreciate.

    I can infer that you’ve seen quite a few ill-advised ventures come and go, and that your desire is to simply help others avoid pitfalls.

    For me, I guess it comes down to the difference in our two experiences – you with a bad taste for things that are different than those tried and true methods you’ve found success with in your own personal experience, and myself with the proof (in the form of real cashable profit-sharing checks) that form the basis of my personal experience.

    In the end, both opinions are completely valid, both anchored in personal experience.

    I also appreciate your expressed desire to help me further along “so you would be able to trade for your self and your own acct.” If I weren’t already happy with my personal progress and trading success, I could be tempted to take you up on that.

    To clarify – I have complete discretion to trade the Apiary funded account when and how I see fit. I am not given trade recommendations or trade suggestions. I have been shown how to trade by professional traders who then give me the means to trade as I please. I have finally come to recognize lucrative trading opportunities, and understand the sound methods of money management that help me to generate consistent success. There are no required trade minimums or maximums, and I can trade or not trade according to my own timeframe.

    Further, you seem to imply that based on the fact that trades are cleared through Divisa Capital that I, or my trading capital is somehow at risk. Apparently you still fail to grasp the Apiary model – at no time is my own trading capital at risk within the company’s funded account. I am free to trade my own account(s) at any time in parallel with theirs within my own brokerage account completely independent of their systems. (I have held an account with InterbankFX since 2006) Not only is the company’s money maintained within their own Divisa account, the company absolutely refuses to co-mingle investor capital within their trading accounts. This allows them to administrate the funded accounts as they see fit – allocating funded accounts to traders who have demonstrated an ability to trade successfully and consistently.

    Again, to be absolutely clear, my only cost to date has been for the training that I have received. I have paid a total of less than $2500 including software licensing fees and data feeds in the nearly 12-months I have been associated with the company’s program. In return, I have been given a funded trading account with their money that I trade as I see fit on a monthly basis. I have cashed the checks I have received, and each of them has cleared no problem.

    That’s good enough for me!

    joey

    June 15, 2012 at 3:13 am

    • @joey

      thx for your explanation.

      but you have yet to post a live trading screen shot;after so many requests and hints, WHY OH WHY?

      however, if you are happy then… that is great, more power to you, joey.

      the more you tried to explain your situations and relationships with the said company,
      the more it sounds like you are much more involved with that company than you are willing to admit.

      at any rate, wish you the very best.

      and do check out those nagging questions for your own satisfaction and peace of mind, K?
      ———————
      AND HERE IS SOMETHING FOR EVERYONE TO TAKE NOTICE ON:

      Registered: Sep 2008
      Posts: 1402

      06-15-12 05:46 AM

      Federal Court in Illinois Orders Defendants Richard C. Regan and Pro Trading Course, LLC to Pay More than $600,000 in Restitution and Civil Monetary Penalties to Settle CFTC Anti-Fraud Action

      “The order finds that PTC, through Regan and its employees, used false and misleading promotional material and sales solicitations, which overstated the advancement opportunity and profit potential of PTC�s commodity futures training program. The defendants also failed to disclose that not one of the 126 clients who completed PTC�s training and became PTC proprietary traders ever advanced beyond Level 1 of the program, according to the order. In addition, no PTC trader ever met the monthly profit targets set by Regan or received profit �payouts� approximating those depicted on the �Payout Charts� Regan prepared, the order finds.

      The order further finds that PTC, through Regan and its sales associates, used false and misleading promotional material and sales solicitations to sell access to PTC�s Virtual Trading Room (VTR). This created the impression that VTR sessions involved actual commodity futures trading, but they failed to disclose that Regan and his team placed only simulated trades while conducting VTR sessions.”

      http://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/pr6280-12

      nakachalet

      June 15, 2012 at 3:29 am

  16. @nakachalet:

    I’ve posted nothing or made claims to nothing that I haven’t had personal experience with. And what’s up with the case law you quoted? That has nothing to do with either Apiary or any of it’s principals.

    The methods and timing of my trading is just that – it’s not administrated or dictated by the company. As I mentioned before, the company does not issue recommendations or trade suggestions. As my trading is my trading alone, I find that your insistence on my posting a screen shot of my trading to be irrelevant to the original issue raised by the author of this thread – a stated opinion that in the author’s view that the Apiary Fund is nothing more than a smoke-screen for a sales gimmick. As I stated previously, my experience is much more than that.

    You clearly want only the best for those with whom you hope to influence with your posts. I certainly support that. My only intent here was to speak out against what I believed was a short-sided analysis of the Apiary Fund based upon the opinions of individuals who had no personal experience with the company or the company’s business model to this point.

    Thanks for your well wishes and for your concern. I too wish you the best.

    joey

    June 15, 2012 at 7:55 am

    • Joey, can you please answer a few things for me/us:
      How long ago did you start training with Apiary?
      How long did you train before starting to trade live (get past simulated training)?
      What account size did you start trading with?
      How long did you trade that account size before advancing to a higher account level (if you’ve advanced), and what was the value of the new account?
      On average, how many hours do you trade per day, and how many trades do you make?
      Are you trading strictly day trades – no overnights?
      Can you share with us the split on your account, or at least a range if you don’t want to be specific?
      Did you have the agreement with Apiary reviewed by an attorney before you signed on? If so, did he/she suggest any changes to the agreement or raised any questions?

      Lots of questions, I know, but the answers could help with my due diligence and lead to a decision, or raise valid questions for Apiary as I go down this path.
      Thanks for your feedback.

      Jake N

      June 15, 2012 at 11:22 am

      • @jake

        personally, i know of a few trading companies whose proprietors are also avid traders trading live and trading own live verifiable personal accct in front of all trading members every trading day.

        no, i have no personal nor biz interest in any of these live trading rooms.

        there are just known to me for several years now.

        yes, they are profitable as far as their calling trading signals are concerned.

        but it is still up to the individual traders whether to take the trades or not.

        in some instances, the chief trader would just call a trader up live and instantaneously after the trader pulls the trigger for a trade that is not conforming to that individual trader’s trading setup, to ask for an explanation of that particular trade.

        these particular trading groups have been in biz for more than 6 yrs as far as i can remember.

        well, i can personally testify that there are profitable trading establishments out there for sure.

        but you might have to do numerous personal investigations and due diligence to discover these profitable entities. a trader would need around 10k usd as trading seed money to join in addition to regular monthly fees and such.

        inasmuch as i have no personal interest whatever, i shall labor no more on this.

        have a wonderful and safe wkend everyone.

        nakachalet

        June 15, 2012 at 1:48 pm

      • Nakachalet, Thanks for your thoughts, addressed to me (Jake N), but perhaps that was in error because I didn’t pose the questions you appear to answer. I am waiting for a response from Joey as he is is the one trading with Apiary and I think his answers would help me shed some light on how the process with Apiary works.
        I am, however, a little curious about YOUR trading experiences and whether or not you are actively trading? If so, what instruments do you trade? Are you a day, swing, or position trader, or all of the above? Do you consider yourself successful at trading – if so, how do you measure “success”? Lastly, what brought you to this forum? Is it a diversion from your own trading or did you at one time think that Apiary might offer a solution to something you are looking for? I appreciate your thoughts.

        Jake N

        June 15, 2012 at 3:43 pm

      • @ Jake N

        Thanks for your questions.

        I started with Apiary in June of 2011. It took me about 4 months to achieve a funded account, with the initial funded level of $2500. This results in a 60%/40% split (to the trader’s advantage) on any profits accumulated within the account over a 30-day period. In other words, the trader receives 60% the company receives 40%. Every 3 months that you show a profit above the initial funded level you’re eligible to advance to the next higher funded level.

        I am now trading at the $10,000 level. This is considered “Level 2″ within their system. On average I trade about 2 hours per day, but as I mentioned before there are no required minimums or maximums the the amount of time I put into trading. I find trading relaxing and fun, and something that I enjoy. My personal trading style is more of a scalping type trader using 1-minute and 5-minute charts with hour and daily charts to confirm trends across multiple time-frames. I usually place around 10 trades per day.

        I did have the trader agreement vetted before I signed it. It was straight forward and included no language indicating that I was prevented from litigating with the company from any location, domestic or International despite what some have alluded to.

        I hope this helps.

        joey

        June 15, 2012 at 5:25 pm

      • just posted a 2min video to perhaps also answer you questions as to trading questions and such, which can be accessed and viewed and enjoyed at the attachment, if you have some time and are inclined to enjoy different trading approaches and such and/or are interested in learning new things, such as ying-yang sticks as compared to candle sticks, for example. at any rate, enjoy for what it is worth. shalom and have a wonderful and safe wkend.

        nakachalet

        June 15, 2012 at 11:40 pm

    • hi joey

      inasmuch as you are unable to or unwilling to or incapable of….

      providing a living proof of your claimed trading profitability singularly and/or

      with your so-called funded company for your live acct, with just a simple trading screen;

      either of which would suffice to prove that:

      1–what you claimed to be, is legit

      2–you are legit in trading live with real money for profit

      3–your trading live is really with live signal and live acct

      4–so on and so fort

      however, to date and after numerous posts and repeated requests,
      you are still unable to produce anything of substance for other traders on board to enjoy your claimed accomplishments with you and

      your company status as to claims and legitimacy as a funding entity based off-shore which is to also

      include your claimed clearing house which is not within the prescribed laws of that nation….

      nevertheless, after all these unresolved principal issues, you are still going on and on that you are abundantly happy because the proof is that you can cash your checks….

      for all intended and purposes, my friend, is it at all possible that the funds in the acct that your checks were drawn on come from a sort of pyramid scheme in which new subscribers’ or trainees’ funds are diverted to pay you….?

      that is entirely possible and you can not argue with that?..moreover, that is much more than likely that, that has been the way most of this sort of companies have been operating and deceiving their clients, most of whom just like you, are just too naive and too green to know or realize the difference?

      is that also probable, joey?

      well, there won’t be any more response from me on this topic henceforth.

      again, shalom and the best to you.

      perhaps, i should also admit that among the so-called traders like yourself with that entity and its satellite associates, there is a trader friend like yourself but who has been becoming increasingly skeptical after getting insufficient responses for those sample questions which were also posted to you earlier.

      what bothers me rather deeply is the fact that it appears that you are not interested to find out what most traders would be most interested in–anything that has anything to do with trading profitability and their trading for living.

      as a trader, you really ought to remain much more alert to protect yourself, right?

      unless of course, you are one of those who has some vested interests of some kind already.
      perhaps another sale person seeking additional income in terms of introducing new wannabe….?

      i just detest to think that, that is entirely probable under all circumstances as far and inasmuch as your exhibited reactions to date, are concerned..

      but inasmuch as trading is concerned, you surely raised plenty of red flags relative to many of my questions posted to you but your answers were always the same–evasive at best.

      lastly, i shall leave you in peace henceforth. sayonara and cheers.with best wishes as always.

      nakachalet

      June 15, 2012 at 1:14 pm

      • @nakachalet:

        Thanks again for your well wishes. Sorry you feel that you haven’t received the confirmation that you feel you’re entitled to simply because you feel I have some obligation to prove something to you personally.

        I sent you a summary of my trading account which you attacked – [to quote] “i just stopped reading at the first paragraph when you attached your performance sheet which as any traders worth their salt would know, is absolutely and categorically subject to manipulation–but i am not saying yours is such, alright?” [end quote]

        I gave up trying to please the World a long time ago. It’s OK if you don’t believe me – despite your personal attacks and veiled accusations I have remained respectful and have attempted to answer your questions.

        Remember, “Different isn’t bad, it’s just different.” If the Apiary Fund isn’t your cup of tea, no problem. I wish you all the best.

        And yes, I anticipate that there probably will be more responses from you.

        joey

        June 15, 2012 at 5:39 pm

      • A GENERAL WARNING TO ALL THOSE

        CLAIMING TO TRADE LIVE ACCOUNT FOR PROFIT,

        FOR OR WITH SOME PROPRIETORIAL BROKERS/DEALERS

        ….I used to be a compliance officer in financial service industry but in different field. I might be wrong but here it is my thinking:

        if you are mentioning FINRA (and this is the prime reason I am writing this e-mail), we are stepping in the very-very tough world of compliance.

        Any legitimate Broker/Dealer, as you know, MUST follow specific federal and state rules and regulations. Correct?

        Now, if this holds true,

        all traders who trade Other People Capital and work for legitimate Broker/Dealer, according to FINRA, have to have one or more special licenses (series 7, 55…)….

        nakachalet

        June 15, 2012 at 7:46 pm

  17. @jake n

    rather than writing long pose to answer your trading questions, i thought you could get some answers from watching the posted video. if after having viewed the attached video with great amusement and pleasure or whatever moods it might have generated, you still have other questions pertaining to trading and such, i’ll try my very best to respond so you too, could be on your way to trading with more confidence and with more profitability which is pretty much an individual thing and which i am certain, you are pretty much already aware of.

    perhaps, it would also set a minimum standard for those gurus or trader trainers or coaches or those trying to help other traders for an extraordinary fee et al, to stop insinuating, unsubstantiated claiming, including but not limiting to enlisting friends, relatives and others to act and post as references to shore up their own creditability. it is a total and absolute shame trying to fradulently devising different ways to fool the newbies who are facing enough tough decisions already on their own. shame, shame and more shame on you all.

    if you are a legit trainer, perhaps, it would be best to save everyone’s time by just posting your live trading screen and showing what you trade and how you trade and how you manage your trading capital / cash pertaining to and regarding risk and reward mangement as you pull your trigger to enter and exit a trade.

    i must admit here that there are numerous other prolific traders capable of much higher trading performances and trading at much more refined plateaus than myself. but most are just too preoccupied with tasks at hand to avail themselves. and i am just one of those untamed and uncultered beginner when compared with those traders who are much further ahead and much much more productive and profitable than myself. i am much humbled by their unperturbed silence and long sufferings.

    jake, happy journey toward becoming more consistent and more profitable. shalom everyone.

    nakachalet

    June 16, 2012 at 12:31 am

  18. Dear Joey,
    Thank you for all your hard work trying to explain the unknown to others. Stick with the things that work like the proverbial bee to honey. I can tell you have a discipline and consistency that will bring you profits.

    Melvin James

    July 9, 2012 at 11:16 pm

  19. Joey:

    You say you can trade at your own discretion, convenience, ETC. One item you “neglected” to state is that Apiary has MINIMUM daily/weekly “quotas” for each funded level. Yours has to be AT LEAST $100/day!!! Yet YOU make it sound as if your can make as much/little each day/week as you feel like.

    ALSO, you say you attend BOTH trading rooms (Wed. + Thur.) TWO hours each time. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!! The rooms are “open” only ONE hour each on Wed., and THUR.

    Tell you what, why don’t YOU tell US who the Apiary Traders are/have been recently on WED’s., AND on Thur’s.
    AND tell us what PLATFORM each uses.

    Finally, why is it that I have NEVER seen, at least recently, a “Joey” in the trading rooms. Were you there yesterday(Wed.) and today, Thur., July 12? What “screen name” do you use.

    ChrisFX

    July 12, 2012 at 6:36 pm

    • thx christfx

      normally, people coming out to defend a system other than the proprietor himself/herself, is usually in some shape or form related to or associated with the entity.

      it is mostly useless to carry on an intelligent conversation with such individuals.

      generally a much waste of time for everyone, particularly members of the forum here.

      thx christfx for the inside story.

      nakachalet@gmail.com

      nakachalet

      July 13, 2012 at 3:40 am

      • So far Apiary is everything they have promised. I am not funded yet but I chose to go through the training first anyway.

        Melvin

        September 26, 2012 at 10:00 am

      • congrats,

        pls do keep us posted about your trading trainings, requirements, experiences et cetera, K?

        thx much and best wishes to you and all the trainees, as well as all their trainers as well.

        nakachalet@gmail.com

        nakachalet

        September 26, 2012 at 10:34 am

  20. Wow!

    Pipn8ez

    jon

    August 1, 2012 at 2:47 am

    • To All: After a long an complete research, I have decided to apply at Apiary. They have a good business model and fiscal stability. I will keep everyone posted on how it goes.

      Melvin

      August 15, 2012 at 7:15 pm

      • hi melvin

        that is great. congrats.

        the trading company might have good promotional programs,
        wonderful incentives and spectacular bonus and all….

        how about yourself, melvin?

        do you have independent trading skills that might be considered as more often than not PROFITABLE, pls?

        have you accumulated independent and dependable individual trading skills that could take you to wherever your ultimate goals in life?

        this company is similar to a host of others who designedly take money from you first on whatever legitimate fronts, such as buying their training materials, buying into their tutorial programs, buying into further opportunity to advance, buying their coaching time and what not….

        IN REAL LIFE, IT IS PLAIN AND SIMPLE…. nobody, no one is going to give away any goose that still lays golden eggs…. neither would this company give away trading tools and setups that are laying golden eggs….

        if any setup is profitable and is furthermore consistently profitable…. why would the proprietors wish to part with it…? would you yourself give away your goose….? would you, melvin….?

        with that said, i’ll give you something to ponder on…. ok? enjoy….

        you can get in touch at…. traders.us@gmail.com…. but there might be a long waiting line there….

        nakachalet

        August 15, 2012 at 9:03 pm

  21. something happened to the posted linkage, my apology.

    here is a better linkage, hopefully….

    the contact email is; traders.us@gmail.com

    nakachalet

    August 15, 2012 at 9:06 pm

    • another unintended error either on my part or on the part of this forum which might have prohibited certain posting of certain linkage from certain origin….?

      anyway, hopefully this is the correct linkage to a trading video, a goose that lays golden eggs…. enjoy.

      nakachalet

      August 15, 2012 at 9:11 pm

  22. Has any one heard anymore from @joey? And ChrisFX, do you use Apiary for trading Forex or where you just investigating them? Do you have any information about them you would like to share? Thanks Stan

    Stan

    September 24, 2012 at 12:01 am

  23. It sounds like this Apiary or whatever is having “try outs” for a person with potential. It sounds like they get their slice of the pie. I am not into this type of trading, but I am familiar with business. If a bid a contract and win the bid, I have to pay subs to do some of the work. I use the same subs for most of my contracts. I pay them money, and I make money. I don’t have the time to do all the work. It sounds like they are looking for good subs to help them make money.

    butch

    October 3, 2012 at 10:58 pm

    • Well it is a business and Apiary doesn’t just take anybody. There is a core set of resume components that they look at and then you have to trade by their rules and oversight. But, if someone wants to be a Forex trader what they expect is what will give someone success.

      Melvin

      October 3, 2012 at 11:04 pm

      • APIARY and several others in the similar biz are just treading on the border of frauds at best.

        just ask yourself–if you can trade profitably by whatever means, just why do you need these blood sucking crowns around you?

        and on the other side of the ledger, if you have cash as many of this similar outfits do claim that they have hidden away somewhere just for you, if you can prove after paying them something, that you can trade by their standards. if any of this outfit does have such kind of cash reserve, why on earth do they want to share with you, a practical stranger….?

        it is a shame that so many of us are so eager to trade that we easily fall prey to any kind of trading scheme offered any dick and jane who mostly are just former failure proned traders who are not able to make it any longer.

        these jerks do know how to get to the beginning traders who are anxious to become profitable without having to invest plenty of time into the processes of learning how to trade profitably which would take several months for certain traders, while it might even take much longer than that into one or two years for another category of traders who are less apt to numbers and statistics.

        more importantly, if apiary and any other outfits out there, if ever they have a hen that might lay some golden egg somewhere…. why would they want to share it with you or others….?

        trading successfully is a personal affair, you got to buckle down and learn all the details yourself, however long it will take you.

        i really do not know, who is really the bigger fool, between and among outfits like apiary and such or….

        those who pay outfit like apiary and others who claim they have proprietorial methodologies, funds and what not….

        hopefully, if you read this thread…. you will be wise enough to think twice or even thrice before sending any outfit any money in exchange for helping you to become a successful trader. IF ANY OF THIS JERK KNOWS HOW TO TRADE PROFITABLY AND CONSISTENTLY, they won’t have time to sit around and dream up schemes to deceive the wannabes….

        a case in point, i am still waiting for the owners of any of these outfits to tell me, who their legal clearing houses are…. so their individual financial requirements could be answered openly and legally in confirmation with the existing statues. to say that we clear our trades and transactions thru an australian broker and such…. is really a red flag…. in my one man opinion….

        nakachalet@gmail.com

        nakachalet

        October 4, 2012 at 4:19 am

      • nakachalet is totally correct… I listened and so sad to see they nailed about 10% of the listeners into paying over $1000 to learn what they could learn in any basic trading book or website. It is a great ‘scam’ in that it makes a newbie think they are needed, when obviously they are not. If they had a method they’d trade it themselves or write a program. But they are not traders, they are simply preying on newbies innocence. I would love to hear from a truly successful trader for Apiary… but havent and never will…. it is a joke but they are making a fortune in a grey area calling it ‘education’. To a total newbie I guess ‘trade the trend’ and ‘use stops’ will sound like great wisdom …

        Paul

        October 4, 2012 at 4:48 am

      • Well I have a degree in law and years of experience in trading. I signed up because once you know enough to find your groove, if its Apiary then great. If not just keep trading and improving your discipline.

        Melvin

        October 4, 2012 at 11:36 am

      • I wish i had posted to this board earlier to help anyone stay away from this big Fraud of a company, namely Apiary Fund. I have been scammed big time by this company, and i completely agree with nakachalet’s views on them, spot on.

        STAY AWAY! from this company. It’s a BIG SCAM! Save that money for your trading account. Hope my comments can help save someone else their hard-earned money, and not throw it in the garbage.

        asuhail

        October 13, 2012 at 7:24 am

      • I have been testing the Apiary business model firsthand now for almost 90 days. I began by being a non-paying guest then I stepped up gradually to a learner and now a full $1000 paid and trading member. I made my decisions regarding Apiary in the same deductive process I trade. I don’t think Apiary is for everyone but I do think everyone can be a success at Apiary. I have studied their business model, law that support their business model, educational aspects of their model and so far, I believe that they are what they say.

        Now in support of Asuhail’s post, I will say that the contractor who follows up on the webinar participants to sell them are seperate and apart. I learned that this structure was in place as I conservatively stepped through the process I described above. I had logged over 500 demo trades before I paid Apiary a dime and I was contacted by 3 or 4 of the contract salesmen who were pushing for a commission.

        I want to encourage anyone in Asuhail’s place who has paid their dues so to speak to just stay in their and work it. Pay the monthly fee, listen to the webinar and try the trading like they recommend. Keep learning and developing and driving you discipline deeper and deeper. You have already made a commitment to yourself to succeed at Apiary by paying up. Go ahead and stalk the success like a hunter stalks prey.

        I hope this helps someone today. I am now in a pre-funded account with 2 week reviews. I have 2112 trades with a win/loss ratio of 3 to 2 +/- and a average win/loss record of about $-2.62. I will keep everyone posted here with how things go.

        Melvin

        October 13, 2012 at 11:26 am

      • Melvin, thanks for your comments. First of all, just based on what you said, “I will say that the contractor who follows up on the webinar participants to sell them are seperate and apart”, is itself pretty darn misleading, so i don’t even know how you can defend this company a little bit after making that statement, it’s strange to me. You might have known the process, but for someone who doesn’t, and gets scammed into it, only later to find out that because there were two separate entities and one doesn’t care about what the other did to you, is itself pretty deceptive. That is what happened to me, i ended up dropping 4K (and yes the reason i don’t mind posting the actual amount i lost is i want people to know exactly what this scam company is about) on this fraud company, the salesman entity (whoever that is) of which promised me certain things for the coaching program, and the other entity (whatever that is also) didn’t deliver on it. I don’t like to judge, but i hope you are not one of the paid people showing up on behalf of the company, like nakachalet mentioned.

        The sad part about my story is that i hadn’t invested in so many other better and much cheaper programs over the course of last year and a half because, even though i had thought they were good, it didn’t fit my schedule. Also, i never got lured into the gimmick about a funded account. I was experienced enough to understand that was just a gimmick. My only decision point was when the salesman had kept calling me to tell me how great their program was he also mentioned several times that at a certain time of the day in the morning someone would work with me one-on-one to ensure that i was learning and gaining confidence to make money consistently. That is the point i got sold on, I needed some one-on-one help because i had a real busy work schedule. To me that is the essence of why anyone would ever sign up for a coaching program. If i had the time to go through browse through a mountain of information (as you suggest someone who has paid their dues should go through the material/webinars and then on top of that pay the $97 technology fee) then i would already be a full-time trader, and i would be living and breathing the market, and would not need any coaching from anyone. I was able to do that very briefly back when i started forex and it worked out pretty good for me, i did make some decent money. Only things is, with full-time work, it is very hard to do it over a long period of time unless someone can coach you at a certain time of day.

        As soon as i had signed up with these guys, and they got my money, that was it. No one contacted me for weeks. I had to keep contacting them to ask them what the heck was going on, and even when i got hold of someone all they had to say was that i should start going through the videos and material on the website.

        Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and ofcourse you as well, so you can continue to think and tell people what you think, but i will continue to spread the information to anyone who needs to know the reality of this big SCAM of a company.

        To everyone else, if you really have a lot of money that you don’t know where to spend then 1.) I don’t even know why you would be looking to get training in the first place and 2.) give it to charity if you don’t want to use it for your trading account, but don’t spend it on this company.

        I don’t have much time to keep posting these long posts, so won’t be posting again, but if anyone needs any help or information deciding whether to deal with this scam company, namely Apiary Fund, feel free to email me asuhail1@yahoo.com. I hope that the 40-50 minutes i just spent writing this post could benefit someone and avoid having them waste their money.

        asuhail

        October 14, 2012 at 7:39 pm

  24. that is really great. and i am very happy for you that you found your success at the company.

    now you are just like numerous others who showed up on behalf of the company and touted success upon success. and i am not doubting you one bit at all. on the contrary, i am for one very happy that another successful trader is born and horned.

    now would you kindly do everyone of us here a big favor, pls?

    JUST SHOW US YOUR LIVE OR SIM TRADE, not by xl format or anything related to such manipulation, but

    INSTEAD, SHOW US YOUR SCREEN TRADES, as to where and when you entered and exited whatever trade you made and whenever you made it….

    if and when you can show us that, perhaps you would influence many more on board here to enlist and follow your successful path to become a consistently profitable trader at whatever company you would suggest, K?

    thx, melvin.

    now, don’t forget, we do not want your verbiage or spread sheet or your chief traders’ verification–they absolutely meant zippo to serious traders.

    we want to see the screen showing–which products and when you took your trades–which it would not matter one bit, if the trade was profitable or not. so do not worry about it, alright?

    thx much in advance on behalf of everyone here.

    nakachalet

    October 13, 2012 at 11:21 pm

    • Thank you for your continued insistance on real proof. I listened to the sales pitch last night and am now trying to verify what I heard, knowing it was a sales pitch. I have no problem paying for real training or oportunities but I’ve been burned enough that I don’t jump till I see it’s safe. It’s too bad Apiary doesn’t seem to be legit. Thank you though!

      schrock007

      February 12, 2013 at 7:27 pm

      • Look guys. I am finally on the inner circles of trading groups that produce in Mi and it is a wonderful thing. In my group (Marketfy/Benzinga) they don’t sell members on prop trading firms. They warn us. It’s real! It’s very real. But you need to find firms that are members of FINRA/SIPC. You also want to look for a firm that requires a license. (A 800-1500 dollar investment) But be warned you can win big and lose very big as well. And that is why unless you are a pro, a prop may not be the best option. Work at being a pro first. Master to some degree your approach, (maximize earnings, managing losses) and then consider getting licensed and finding a local prop firm in your community and going at it. I can not comment on legit firms that are solely online and allow you to work at home for them with asking for a deposit, training you and then giving you cash. According to my group you should stay clear. But I was told if you are serious and are in a financial place where you can cover losses if it happens, look into your local prop firms. Again they are legit and are making thousandaires and millionaires but it was not a 6-9 month process like online prop firms may claim. Guys that are successful at prop trading have been either trading for years or they breathe it and live it all the time. So leverage works to their advantage and gain. So the point of all of this. Stop chatting about the fakes. Search for the real if you are serious. But be warned. If you lose, you could lose big.

        Connell B

        February 13, 2013 at 2:17 pm

  25. So pleased I found this site, I listened to the spiel yesterday and then a representative called me last night and I hadn’t even filled in the application form, well I filled it in but never pressed the submit button. I was then passed to a “director” who tried to persuade me further. He is calling me later today. After reading the comments on here, I will keep my money and trade it myself, I have only been doing it for about 2 months, on a demo and now a little on a real account, I only trade 0.5 – 1% of my account and try very hard to be disciplined about it. @Nakachalet I would very much like to learn more and if that is ok with you I will contact you via the email you posted above.

    Once again many thanks to everyone on here for these insights

    Cherie

    October 26, 2012 at 8:35 am

  26. Hi all, I was lead to Apiary Fund on its offer to train traders to trade with their funds from an Investopedia article. I decided to check it out and landed here. Am most pleased with the many insights for and against.

    My first comment is that if we have to pay for the training and facilities to trade then the “advert” is very misleading. As an aspiring trader, I am most grateful to contributors like nakachalet and all others for helping people like me to navigate through the many “dangers” we have to face in this on-line trading world.

    I started as a forex trader about four years ago and now am trading commodity futures quite successfully. I depend totally on techical analysis to make my trading decisions with fundamental analysis just to know the “why?”. I am successful based on the fact that I have moved from all losing trades, to some winning & some losing trades to now more winning trades than losing trades (small loses). For me, “cut the losses short and let the profits run”… actually works.

    I spent about $3000 for just a few days of week-end face-face training/seminars which gave me a “jump-start” into the world of trading, From zero I knew something that all, the guru’s strategy was nonsense, does not work but still I learnt a lot from them. The rest of it is hard-work.. about 8 hours per day watching the charts and developing my trading strategy/system. i worked one indicator at a time, one asset at a time, one timeframe at a time…. tedious but haha… there is something there if you care to look.

    I owe my success to my first paid gurus, the many many on-line gurus (free of charge and for some a very small fee), a reliable data & charting service (my tools), focus, discipline and most of all PATIENCE to wait for my signal. It is true that trading is 90% psychology and 10% the rest. You need guts to trade and guts can come from confidence and confidence can come from Knowledge, Tools, Skills and experience. Thanks

    Joe

    November 26, 2012 at 4:46 am

  27. I have joined the apiary fund about two months. I am practicing in demo account. I thought they would pay me a fund to trade. I have earned @6752.10. And even I won my first 10 positions in a row. They congratulated me for that. Last week I won 600 pips+. They again congratulated me. But my problem is about the fee . If I apply for a fund how I will pay them $97? And why do they charge the fee before paying any fund? Do I have to believe that I will pay them $97 monthly and they will fund me $25000 ……etc?I will say if apiary fund is honest then they will fund a newbie trader without any fee. Only they can take fee when we become to earn then they can cut their fee from our account. Then both will be happy, they will get fee and commissions and we will get free fund and profits.

    Mohammad Hannan

    October 18, 2013 at 10:13 pm

    • @mohammad

      hi mohammad, since i do not know how to retrieve my earlier post. i shall try to post a shorter version to express similar idea.

      for a long while, i thought i was the only one who have this crazy idea like you expressed in your post.

      a few months ago, i wrote a post expressing such similar idea in another trading forum.

      as many already knew that i am not a vendor seeking free ads, neither am i self-promoting as a vendor, nor am i soliciting any business around here nor any where else.

      yes, there are numerous email from different regions expressing intense interest. some even sent copy of their passports that their embassies refused to acknowledge…. LOL

      well, with that out of the way, i thought you also have a great idea, a revolutionary idea that would really separate the water from the wine, particularly true in this area of claiming to teach others how to trade profitably and consistently. amongst many snake oil promoters, there are a handful genuine consistently profitable traders and trading forums, for sure.

      one easy way to separate the water from the wine is, those who are profitable will trade with their own real money live account. while those who claim to be profitable WILL SHOW YOU PROFITABLE SPREADSHEET OR TONS OF PERSONAL TESTIMONIALS FROM EVERYONE, practically. and each will tell you more reasons that you care to listen, as to the reasons why they can not show you what you want to know and/or how it might be in violation of the current statues and such. do not waste your time nor your money on this group of traders and promoters, as a matter of fact, run as fast as you can and as far as you can, K?

      MORE IMPORTANTLY, PROFITABLE TRADERS WILL ALSO UNABASHEDLY SHOW YOU THEIR LIVE TRADING SCREENS, you may not be able to see all their trading monitors, but he/she will show you at least one live account trading screen where whenever a trade is going to be taken, it would show up on that screen and it would clearly show AT WHAT PRICE, THE LONG OR SHORT WOULD BE TRIGGERED. and you and everyone else there, would be able to see clearly how a trade is entered, how that trade is administered, managed and closed out, in an orderly manner, with or without profit.

      and while it is in trade, you would be able to see whether the position is profitable or not, tic by tic and second by second, everything is live and on screen for everyone who participates, to see for himself/herself, all in real time with real money and real account, on line.

      whatever you do, insist on seeing with your own eyes; do not believe for a second whatever those callers would like you to believe, or; however great the results or amount of money they are trying to plaster over you; hoping that you would sign on and send them some small deposit to start with or in good faith.
      ——————————————
      alright, here is the piece that i wrote and posted in some trading forum, similar to what mohammad expressed in this forum. but unfortunately, one on site monitor concluded that i was a vendor, i was seeking free ads, i was self-promoting and i was also soliciting their members on their forum as well.

      after finished reading this short article, if you have time, send me an email whether or not you agree or disagree with the site monitor’s conclusion, OK? my email is: nakachalet@gmail.com thanks very much everyone for your time, patience and indulgence.
      ——————————————

      by nakachalet; nakachalet@gmail.com September 2nd, 2013 at 04:40 PM

      AN INTERESTING QUESTION FOR TRADING VENDORS, GURUS, MENTORS, EDUCATORS, et al ….

      i am just thinking out loud and do not intend to offend any one or entity or to mess up anyone’s income or livelihood…. OK?

      after having been on board here for a couple of years now, and after having read thru numerous columns, opinions, posts and what not, it appears that there are just many many of those who sincerely desired to learn how to trade profitable but very often were enticed by various different trading ads offered by so many different tutors, mentors, trainers including educational trading schools and academics that a majority of these wishing to learn to be profitable traders, were mostly disappointed in different ways.

      many even claimed fraudulent enticements and practices after having paid several thousand dollars for something that they did not consider compensatory with what they were asked to pay.

      it is very sad that in spite of and despite of these frequent complaints, there have been practically nothing done among avid traders to provide a better answer or even a lightly better alternative for those seeking to learn how to trade profitably. most are just left to fend for themselves. and the same ordeal keeps repeating itself over and over and over, right under our noses.

      mind you, i am not accusing any one or any entity here at bmt nor any other trading forums or trading schools, of fraud or otherwise, K? there are laws against fraudsters and those practising frauds. so everyone is considered innocent here, or otherwise each would be prosecuted by now.

      i often wonder, if it is even prudent if some entity, trading coach, trading guru, trading educators et al would just tell those wishing to learn how to trade profitably and consistently from them that….

      ok, tell y’al what…. I KNOW I AM GOOD, I KNOW I AM MORE THAN COMPETENT AND I AM CERTAIN THAT I AM PROFITABLE…. and more than that i have also been a consistently profitable trader by my own right….

      so you do not need to pay me just yet, OK?

      YOU CAN PAY ME LATER…. OUT OF YOUR TRADING PROFITS….

      just trade along side with me, trade by trade….

      if i can not generate positive income for you, then i’ll be too humiliated to even ask you for any compensation….

      however, if i can help you to trade profitably and consistently, then maybe i am entitled to 20% of whatever your net is….?

      perhaps, this unorthodox proclamation would disquiet many fraudulent claims and practices from many wishing to learn to trade profitably and consistently…. and also creating a trading boom for those who dare to stick out their necks to prove their worth. there won’t be any more of those requests showing me your certified brokers’ statement and what not, so on and so forth.

      instead, there would be just…. show me your instantaneous trades, teacher?

      this is just one old man’s opi, K? which probably does not worth anything to anyone, particularly those who have many many more years of experience in trading and what not.

      thx again, y’al for your time and indulgence to date. i really do not have any intention to infuriate or anger anyone, entity or establishment here at bmt or other forums, OK? it is just a one man opi, alright? thx again.

      Last edited by nakachalet; nakachalet@gmail.com September 2nd, 2013 at 04:40 PM.
      ——————————————–

      nakachalet

      October 20, 2013 at 7:01 pm

  28. i just posted a rather lengthy reply to mohammad but then i was asked to log-in.

    after i logged in, i could not find my reply-post to mohammad any longer.

    anyone knows how i could retrieve my post, pls?

    thx everyone.

    nakachalet@gmail.com

    nakachaletn

    October 19, 2013 at 2:24 pm

  29. Well I received a call today from the Apairy Fund group saying to me the following:
    “This is Julie giving you a call from the Apairy fund i’m reaching out to you because you inquired about our money manager position. if your still interested in that position please give me a call at 8018008864 again that is 8018008864. thank you.”
    First of all I don’t care who they are, I have never sought out a position with them. I am a trader and although my phone number is on the “Do Not Call List” I suspect they got my information from one of the two services I use for trading, considering they used my name and had my number.
    As far as I’m concerned they are a fraud, PERIOD…

    GC

    March 26, 2014 at 4:01 am


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